tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5297306090706424134.post6090362269047782940..comments2023-08-15T02:21:46.775-07:00Comments on Things and Also Stuff...: The Black HoleUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5297306090706424134.post-61347719349308711192011-11-26T15:41:59.692-08:002011-11-26T15:41:59.692-08:00Awwwwwwwww! The last one doesn't even HAVE a r...Awwwwwwwww! The last one doesn't even HAVE a robot in it!!! I'll give you 5 limping humanoids and 6 Kate mulgrews for it!!<br /><br />FlannAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5297306090706424134.post-55791037986769785922011-11-13T14:56:11.863-08:002011-11-13T14:56:11.863-08:00Harsh? or simply less nostalgic? I could hardly re...Harsh? or simply less nostalgic? I could hardly remember it before the recent re-watch and I'd be lying if I said it holds up well on the entertainment front. <br><br />Still,— it is definitely an <i> interesting </i> { post-Walt's death/ pre-Touchstone's birth } Disney flick,— definitely in terms of tone.<br /><br /> The actual swirly Black Hole's depiction may have shown scant regard for the actual physical reality but I thought it was pretty cool, and <i> your</i> description,<br /><br>"a swirling bath of dandruff flecked molasses draining down a plughole"<br><br />isn't a million miles off.<br /><br /> It was the first effect created for the film and it was made by forming a whirlpool in a round Plexiglas water tank, into which <b>20,000 Leagues Under The Sea</b>’s effects man<b> Peter Ellenshaw</b>, ( who had been coaxed out of retirement), poured various coloured pigments. The vortex was then backlit, photographed with a super-fast film stock, and finally slowed down before being inserted into blue screen sequences*, so not a million miles off.<br />*That info from David Hughes, Empire magazine.<br /><br />On the subject of Mr M's card-related-miserliness there is can be no defence, and,<br /> as was once was true of bubble-gum cards depicting robots: I won't be offering you one.Darren Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00035977231087809840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5297306090706424134.post-3548541365647245992011-11-12T08:34:26.775-08:002011-11-12T08:34:26.775-08:00Very interesting review. Way harsh though! I had t...Very interesting review. Way harsh though! I had to pester my father for WEEKS to get him to bring me to see TBH, in the Astor cinema. This tells you a number of things:<br /><br />1) Yes, there was a time when even a second rate film could play in the same cinema for WEEKS at a time.<br />2) My father hates going to the cinema. He complained bitterly for days afterward to anyone that would listen about the fact that the SHORT film before the main film about surfing was much better than the "feature". He complained in precisely the same way THE OTHER time (yes, the OTHER time) he took me to the cinema, which was to see Star Wars. I'm not counting 'The Cat From Outer Space' double bill with 'Herbie Goes Bananas' debacle in the Metropole.<br />2.1) The fact that going to the cinema was an event you could talk about for days afterwards tells you a lot about the state of the entertainment to be had in, as they say on the shite radio stations ('you'll have to be more specific') "Eye-yurhr-lahnd" then.<br />3) This was even from BEFORE the Astor was known for dodgy x-rated films. <br />4) I loved TBH long before I saw anything of it apart from tiny clips on programs like 'Clapperboard'.<br /><br />Minor geeky point: the name of the ship, Cygnus, is so called because the first ever observationally suspected black hole is called Cygnus X1. As for the film the Ahab thing is way off base IMHO. It’s got to be based on an unholy miscegenation of the Jules Verne notions of "20k Leagues Under the Sea", AND, the lesser known "Master of the World". Yes, it’s a kid’s film but, being a kid, I couldn't get enough of it. Yes, it's laughable now, but in the same way that your old Teddy or Action Men, or Steve Austin dolls are "laughable". Robots, spaceships, lasers, black holes!, murder, mayhem etc, what more could you ask for? <br /><br />I think you're right to highlight the darker gothic elements, but I think that may have been Disney trying to build in something for adults into the storyline - consciously trying to ape the (extremely hidden, "Hero With a Thousand Faces" type) depth that emerges from Star Wars, but failing. The special effects have that disappointing cartoon Disney flavor, nothing like the innovation of ILM in Star Wars. But that's the point - Disney were hopping on a band wagon, having to pump out this product, in order to be seen to be playing in that market for their shareholders. <br /><br />As you point out it made money, but it’s poor performance relative to Star Wars may have inspired the idea (eventually) of Touchstone Pictures (wholly owned by Disney, but not with the Disney trademark). That allows them to make adult themed/violent/horror/proper sci fi, without impinging on cuddly Disney brands. I say that because if it HAD been made 10 years later by Touchstone, they may have been able to go much further with the gothic angle than the Disney brand ever could have, and hence made a much more interesting film.<br /><br />Who's to say they wouldn't have ended up at the doorstep of something like (the utterly execrable) "Event Horizon", which may owe at least SOMETHING to the TBH, no?<br /><br />As a film, TBH is indelibly printed in my memory - especially Perkins' "floba-loba" gurgling demise at Max's rotors.<br /><br />And as well - you forgot to mention the short lived Black Hole ice pop, and the utterly ludicrous notion of a black hole looking like a swirling bath of dandruff flecked molasses draining down a plughole.<br /><br />And as for TBH cards - I recall a certain Mr. M being more than miserly with any cards that so much as contained a circuit of robot (Bob, Vincent and Maximilian in that order), thus stifling the ability of the true collector/connoisseur to enrich his completeness as a human being in the struggle towards card-set fulfillment. Thanks for that!<br /><br />I still haven't gotten number 89 or whatever the last one is, so if anyone wants to donate it to my otherwise complete collection, feel free.<br /><br />Flann.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5297306090706424134.post-35162679585914633352011-11-10T08:11:57.052-08:002011-11-10T08:11:57.052-08:00This is an interesting interpretation of the '...This is an interesting interpretation of the 'habitable life' comment alright and there are aspects of the film that do invite fanciful speculation along these lines: not only do we 'hear' Vincent's thoughts, but he does state a dislike for the company of robots.<br /><br />Hmmmmmmmmnnnnnn...Darren Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00035977231087809840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5297306090706424134.post-67281910341277891592011-11-09T11:57:12.891-08:002011-11-09T11:57:12.891-08:00Thanks you muchly, for the consideration and for t...Thanks you muchly, for the consideration and for the initial review. <br /><br />The more i look at it the more interesting a movie it becomes,the relation of humans and robots/cyborgs is particularly intriguing.<br /><br />There does not seem to be a definite line drawn between human and robot, in fact, there seems to be a willful blurring of the differences, in a way, there could be a case made for the robots in the film being animated receptacles of the soul/spirit/person,as if future technology has found ways of encrypting soul and machine, or, in the case of the crew of the cygnus, voiding the soul from the body while still keeping it animate.<br /><br />This might make some sense of the seeming mistake at the start, i mean, if we take seriously the idea that there might be a developing technology of soul transference/digital possession then a search for 'habitable life'is not such a faux pas in they may be looking for biological vessels so that may re-house a soul instead of the artificial ones, Vincent, Bob, Maximillian, the zombie crew, that they have at present. <br /><br />Well, given that none of this seems explicit it may just be some fanciful speculation on my part.Anne Droid O Doylehttp://www.lateralscience.co.uk/reanim/galvreanim2.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5297306090706424134.post-34265329883564521982011-11-06T10:22:57.260-08:002011-11-06T10:22:57.260-08:00Brilliantly put! Let us call Rheinhardt an amalgam...Brilliantly put! Let us call <b>Rheinhardt</b> an amalgam then, ( for though a man who <i>lobotomises</i> his crew for mutiny does seem a tad less charismatic than one who <i>inspires</i>, and inspires the religiously blind worship demonstrated by the <b>Peaquod</b> crew for their Captain, - still, the result is the same ).You make some excellent points, and Melville makes some excellent reading.Darren Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00035977231087809840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5297306090706424134.post-11672831185893446722011-11-06T09:36:03.061-08:002011-11-06T09:36:03.061-08:00Oho sir, i do not mean to suggest that you must ch...Oho sir, i do not mean to suggest that you must choose between those dashing captains, more likely theres a conflation of the two in Rheinhardt.<br /><br />I'll give a brief scurry as to my reasoning pro-Ahab that "grand, ungodly, godlike man,"...<br /><br />The intense fascination on a natural phenomenon, Black Hole/White Whale, which may also present religious overtures.<br /><br />"Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way? Or is it, that as in essence whiteness is not so much a color as the visible absence of color; and at the same time the concrete of all colors; is it for these reasons that there is such a dumb blankness, full of meaning, in a wide landscape of snows- a colorless, all-color of atheism from which we shrink?"<br /><br />There is also the presence of a dark-half embodied as an other, Rheinhardt/Maximillian - Ahab/Fedallah 'an inscrutable figure with a sinister influence over Ahab', and their twinned deaths both towed down into the depths by the whale.<br /><br />Ahab's ship, the Peqoud, is manned by a crew who, save for one, Starbuck, are unswerving in their loyalty to their captain. An interesting line from Ahab to Starbuck 'All visible objects, man, are but as pasteboard masks.But in each event — in the living act, the undoubted deed — there, some unknown but still reasoning thing puts forth the mouldings of its features from behind the unreasoning mask.' Echoes of those mirror-masks worn by the Cygnus crew?<br /><br />The fate of the Pequod itself, "which, like Satan, would not sink to hell till she had dragged a living part of heaven along with her, and helmeted herself with it." Apparently it causes a whirlpool when it sinks dragging down boats and sailors.<br /><br />And heres Ahab on about that Whale<br /><br />'If man will strike, strike through the mask! How can the prisoner reach outside except by thrusting through the wall? To me, the white whale is that wall, shoved near to me. Sometimes I think there's naught beyond. But 'tis enough. He tasks me; he heaps me; I see in him outrageous strength, with an inscrutable malice sinewing it. That inscrutable thing is chiefly what I hate; and be the white whale agent, or be the white whale principle, I will wreak that hate upon him. Talk not to me of blasphemy, man; I'd strike the sun if it insulted me. For could the sun do that, then could I do the other; since there is ever a sort of fair play herein, jealousy presiding over all creations. But not my master, man, is even that fair play. Who's over me? Truth hath no confines.'<br /><br />Not simply vengence but also escape not just from society but maybe also from fate?Moby Van Dykehttp://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Moby-Dicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5297306090706424134.post-49123693119007470032011-11-06T05:19:46.188-08:002011-11-06T05:19:46.188-08:00Ahab v Nemo.
They are indeed a great pair of ficti...<b>Ahab v Nemo.</b><br />They are indeed a great pair of fictional, driven and crazed Captains to compare against the captain of the ghostly <b>Cygnus</b>. I suppose what makes Rheinhardt less Ahabby' (Ahabesque?) and more 'Nemoical' to me is their (largely) self-created amazing ships, their shared interest in science and their use of those ships and that science to facilitate their love of lurking: <i><br /><br />"In it is supreme tranquillity. The sea does not belong to despots. Upon its surface men can still exercise unjust laws, fight, tear one another to pieces, and be carried away with terrestrial horrors. But at thirty feet below its level, their reign ceases, their influence is quenched, and their power disappears. Ah! sir, live--live in the bosom of the waters! There only is independence! There I recognise no masters! There I am free!"</i><br /><br />Ahab is so synonymous with revenge for me, that, of the two, Nemo's by far the better fit, ( although with his zombie crew, Rheinhardt is a bat-shit dark-side version of him ). Ahab is alike in madness to Rheinhardt,- but Rheinhardt seeks freedom from society and not vengance.Darren Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00035977231087809840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5297306090706424134.post-22655704982312375602011-11-05T18:23:25.373-07:002011-11-05T18:23:25.373-07:00Thats twice now, twice that i have seen the Nemo c...Thats twice now, twice that i have seen the Nemo comparison, both on here and on another fine blog on the subject of The Black Hole.<br /><br />I'm not going to dismiss the Nemo thing out of hand, i have only scanty recollections of the movie and have never read the book, but i'd like to venture another comparison, another captain, and another book i have not read, Captain Ahab and Moby Dick 'The Great White Whale'.<br /><br />I'm not saying its a blow for blowhole direct adaption but theres enough correlations between Moby Dick and The Black Hole to get me thinking that it must have played a part in the proceedings.Melville Plaicehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moby-Dicknoreply@blogger.com